Posts by Jonathan Drake

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

@myelaine

the scripture there in 1 john states that those who deny Jesus is the Christ are a liar and the anti Christ. The Quran doesn't do this:

The Quran chapter 3 verse 45: "The Angels said, "Mary, God gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world and the next, who will be one of those brought near to God."

the Quran teaches Jesus was the Christ, the messiah and gods agent in earth through Mary. The Quran condemns the trinity, which I also agree with as I've stated elsewhere the bible does not support the trinity. A Christ is merely gods representative.

Moses was a Christ, Jesus was a Christ - and the Quran teaches this. There is a verse in another sura that even states Jesus death was a death "equal to Adam" which is a clear reference to the role he played as the messiah in repurchasing mankind.

Like I said earlier, many many times the Quran states it is not a replacement of scripture but a confirmation of it (referring to the bible). It is encouraged to read the bible and the Quran together, with one as a confirmation of the other. I have found no contradictions in the Quran, and I would submit if you appear to have found one, that the full harmony of Quranic verse would, together, dismiss it.

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

@simon actually yea I've said the same about the bible. Just like Muslims don't listen to the Quran, Christians largely don't listen to the bible. I defend the bible and not Christianity.

Example in current events - the bible DOES NOT condemn gay marriage. The bible says homosexuality is wrong - true. But eating from the tree of knowledge was wrong, David's census was wrong, the stoning of Steven was wrong... Point being that the bible does not restrict free will. If you are gay and want to marry your partner, the bible allows this because you are a person with free will. The bible says homosexuality is wrong, but it also says only Christ judges and we are to judge nobody, treat all with love and the way we want to be treated. Hence, Christians speaking out against gay persons, and trying to hinder gay marriage are overstepping their bounds. I would defend the bible for what it actually teaches and condemn the Christians for doing this.

as far as the Book of Mormon goes- that book is insane. I won't touch it because it is not inspired and goes beyond the bible. The Quran does not so far as I can tell, and as I've stated previously - is supposed to be taken along with scripture.

29

I just wanna know WHY ! ! ??

by brandnew in

jw
friends

i just wanna know why...after a thousand dang years, jehovah would even want to think about lettin go of the dude who started it all....satan.

why?..

like a thousand years is a long time, and people are supposed to be gettin perfect n stuff during this time, and the earth is supposed to be gettin all perfectionized.... so satan can f- - - it all up again?.

Jonathan Drake

@Brandnew

Also if you consider 1 Thessalonians, and the fact that Christ said he would return and take up the elect before John died - this leads one to the conclusion that Christ didn't assume the throne in 1914, but at some point a very long time ago. Christ himself said he would raise the elect up before john died. So the elect were raised way back around 100 AD and sealed. His reign would have begun after this, once his enemies were placed "as a stool for his feet." The devil was abyssed at this time, a very long time ago. So, we are living at the time he has been freed from the abyss and is gathering the nations together for the final war. There is no post armeggeddon test, 1914 is wrong, and this chronology in rev, along with statements by Christ and the book of 1 these all harmonize this is true.

303

The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

by TerryWalstrom in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

Jonathan Drake

@Cofty

To to tell you the truth, I must admit to complete ignorance of what the Hadith even says other than what was posted here. When I read those verses I had to research what the Hadith says and where it comes from. Not all Muslims except the Hadith. But I would have to concede that the Hadith is the originality of very bad things in Islam. I must state again my primary interest rests in defense of the Quran, not necessarily of Islam (though I do not condone condemnation of the whole group for the few). Those in Islam who accept the Hadith will likely mistreat women and do crazy things, and this I will not defend in the slightest. The Hadith does truly sound like the mother load of bad ideas, and I would submit that Islam as a whole should reform and unite in a way that does away with the Hadith for all and correctly teaches what the Quran actually says instead. A more modern translation that is easier to understand and takes into account cultural changes without sacrificing the Qurans teachings would be in order.

29

I just wanna know WHY ! ! ??

by brandnew in

jw
friends

i just wanna know why...after a thousand dang years, jehovah would even want to think about lettin go of the dude who started it all....satan.

why?..

like a thousand years is a long time, and people are supposed to be gettin perfect n stuff during this time, and the earth is supposed to be gettin all perfectionized.... so satan can f- - - it all up again?.

Jonathan Drake

If you actually read the order proscribed in revelation (chap 21 I believe), the abyssing for 1000 years takes place at the start of christs reign. Then the elect are raised, the rest of the dead are not raised until the END of christs reign. After the thousand years the devil is let loose for the final war, which is Armageddon, not some post new world battle. He loses and is imprisoned for all time. THEN the dead are raised and judged, death is done away with, and the new world, having been reconciled to perfection, begins.

This is is the actual order found in revelation. And it matches 1 Cor (chapter 15 I believe). The witnesses are wrong about the post armeggeddon test, and you are right - after armeggeddon, which takes place at the END of christs reign, the devil is permanently done away with.

24

The Iraqi Problem - an Overview and Solution

by Village Idiot in

much has been said about muslims and iraq but little historical information has been given to understand the context.

context is important in understanding anything especially with regards to conflicts.

islam and the conflict in iraq requires knowledge of at least four different parties with a general understanding of their ideology.. islam was founded around 622 c.e.

Jonathan Drake

Yea I know it'd be ridiculous. They'd have to get the people behind them somehow. But I still think, if it could be figured out somehow, it'd be for the best.

26

Jesus died for US...technically

by enigma1863 in

for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son and then took him back.

that's not love, its a big legal loophole.

people have technically died in the past, and by the standards of diagnosing death in bible times you could definitely beat 48 hrs and return.

Jonathan Drake

I understand your point. But it has no bearing on the question asked. The first century Christians, according to scripture, did understand the repurchasing aspect of christs death. This is the point. How the Jews of the day felt is irrelevant to the OP.

31

The WBATS has officially become a Fortune 500 company they are going public Monday buy your shares soon while they LAST!!!

by ADJUSTMENTS in

jw
friends

with the recent leak and viewing of the elders video on the new standard construction kingdumb halls the rank & file brobots have officially become employees of a billion dollar publishing and now real estate company, equipped with 7 ceo's and many businessmen as shrewd and as money hungry as any rival fortune 500 company.. the new kingdumb halls look like (i have to give it to them) expertly designed commercial properties that any major office, restuarant or commercial leasing company would package as a ultra versatile space!!!

the old kingdumb halls where a tough resale to the general public because of the custom designing aspects of the old kingdumb halls.

they have completely done away with that issue with these new versatile properties which can be converted to an office/restaurant/repair garage/clinic.

Jonathan Drake

I guess the comment in last years KINDUMB MINISTRY: Will this be our last memorial? Was a bit of satire also... because I think we all know the answer to that one now... A BIG FAT HELL NO!!! Ha

No kidding. When I saw that I was so annoyed. I was still going at that point.

10

The JW's were right!!! The government is starting its turn against RELIGION!!!

by ADJUSTMENTS in

this is what obama recently had to say about religion and how it is causing problems in the world... the prophecy is coming true!!!

we apostates are doomed!!!.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=afndil42e20.

Jonathan Drake

I believe wholeheartedly that the harlot in religion represents religion and that the beast a world power. But I fully believe the Watchtower is wrong about who the beast is and now it will play out. They have to be wrong, otherwise they are true- and they are not.

government against religion is kind of inevitable though, I'm not sure how much of a prophecy that really is.

24

The Iraqi Problem - an Overview and Solution

by Village Idiot in

much has been said about muslims and iraq but little historical information has been given to understand the context.

context is important in understanding anything especially with regards to conflicts.

islam and the conflict in iraq requires knowledge of at least four different parties with a general understanding of their ideology.. islam was founded around 622 c.e.

Jonathan Drake

I think I stated elsewhere that I honestly believe the solution is the eradication of all religion. Make religion illegal. It'd take a few decades of fighting no doubt but eventually people wouldn't know the words Islam, Christian, or Jew (in the religious sense, not saying kill all Jews).